Pools brainstorming

Garfield (RadioShack, commish)
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Pools brainstorming Nov 11, 2019 14:26:06 GMT 1

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Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Nov 11, 2019 14:26:06 GMT 1

As usual, first we'll construct the pools, and then we'll conduct the bidding starting on December 1.

10 teams currently signed up: RadioShack

My first proposal in broad strokes:
- in terms of rules simplification: strongly considering removing the rebound list (simply 100- CQ instead)
- removed some retired riders: Spilak, Kittel
- welcome to the top: Grossschartner (perhaps Oscar Rodriguez?) GC, four of Tolhoek/Gesink/Hagen/Masnada/Hirt/Kuss/Polanc grimpeurs, one of Betancur/Cattaneo/Jansen (83kg!) all-rounder, two of Haas/Roux/Clarke/Pernsteiner/Aranburu puncheurs, Turgis, Bettiol, and Teunissen classics, Sarreau, van Asbroeck and Merlier sprinters, Craddock and Haga Time Machines
- somewhat controversially kept the 1985 peepz in gen pop - maybe I'm getting old and soft, but somehow I would never consider Fuglsang or GVA geezers
- added the 1995 guys as follows: Mas & Tao GC, Knox grimpeur, de Plus all-rounder, Cosnefroy puncheur, Bol sprinter, last but not least Garcia Cortina, Pedersen, vdPoel classics - meaning this category ballooned to the degree that forced me to make Theuns a sprinter again, van Baarle an all-rounder given his newly found climbing prowess (Dillier to Rebound to create that space), as well as Drucker and Roelandts mere Rebound candidates
- Battaglin to Rebound, Conti taking his spot
- Sbaragli also into puncheurs if he signs with a decent team, also Vendrame is added, Boudat moves over from sprinters, and Cimolai returns in style, while a bunch of weak puncheurs are borderline Rebound candidates instead
- as usual, a bunch of weak sprinters go straight to Rebound, while luckily Mezgec returns
- ignored for now: Neilands, A. de Gendt, de Bondt, Janse van Rensburg
- thus leaning towards pools of 24

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0SOLrswTiG7pjiEkLXtdzj5MpknRSvDgXhUx60pjnc/edit#gid=159228718

Last Edit: Nov 12, 2019 0:45:50 GMT 1 by Garfield (RadioShack, commish)

TERatcliffe26 (Sky)
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Pools brainstorming Nov 11, 2019 21:52:11 GMT 1 Garfield (RadioShack, commish) likes this

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Post by TERatcliffe26 (Sky) on Nov 11, 2019 21:52:11 GMT 1

Agree with pretty much all of what your have said...

Hagen, Masnada, Hirt and Kuss for me of those 4
Cattaneo for me
Pernsteiner and Aranaburu for me (maybe Clake) (could argue Haas and Roux could be rebounds, certainly seemingly trending downwards, whereas the first two trending up)

glomser (Vacansoleil)
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Pools brainstorming Nov 12, 2019 16:16:30 GMT 1

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Post by glomser (Vacansoleil) on Nov 12, 2019 16:16:30 GMT 1

If I had to chose

for GC: Grossschartner or perhaps G Martin
Grimpeur Hagen/Masnada/Polanc number 4 harder as I would go for Betancur
All-round Cattaneo
Puncheur Haas/Pernsteiner or maybe even swap Haas for Ciccone (who could be an allrounder as well)
Classics Teunissen
Sprint is close between Sarreau and Merlier
Time Machine Both could fit in. Perhaps even Politt

I think Van Baarle is Ok as allrounder (think even better as Classics)

For Geezers you can make exception by scoring more than XX points they won't turn in as Geezer. But don't see why Valverde and Nibali are OK as geezer and GVA and Fuglsang aren't.

As Sbaragli has signed for Corendon I think he can be added to puncheurs.

Ignoring Neilands can if his country could be added to Global

And I would set Aru to rebounder as he had 2 awfull seasons...

glomser (Vacansoleil) God Posts: 1,168	Pools brainstorming Nov 23, 2019 0:39:31 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by glomser (Vacansoleil) on Nov 23, 2019 0:39:31 GMT 1 I was looking at the pools and for Rebounder I was thinking of these riders: Aru 194 Zoidl 147 Thomas B. 137 Mclay 134 Lietaer 130 vd Hoorn 121 Haas 118 Armee 115 Meintjes 107 (or is he Global?)

Garfield (RadioShack, commish)
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Pools brainstorming Jan 6, 2021 21:56:05 GMT 1

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Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Jan 6, 2021 21:56:05 GMT 1

2021 brainstorming should be quick. Let's take 24 hours to spot any obvious mistakes I made, and then we draft. I'm assuming 6-10 participants, so even imperfect pools of 23 won't spoil it.

1985 gone to geezers.

Aru, Tejay, Zakarin, Frank, Henao, Kreuziger, Debusschere, Boudat, Haas, Mareczko, Consonni also gone.

Excellent 1996 year as follows: Kämna, Martinez GC only, Hindley, Gaudu, Vlasov grimpeurs, Dunbar all-rounder, Madouas puncheur, Moschetti, Jakobsen, Hodeg sprinters, Ganna and Affini time machines. I'll also add Cavagna and Cerny there to offset multiple geezerifications.

And then follows the fine art of equalizing the pool sizes:
- both Carthy's and Latour's TT improved enough to go to GC,
- Theuns and Hofstetter from pure sprinters to classic specialists.

Tadaaam: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0SOLrswTiG7pjiEkLXtdzj5MpknRSvDgXhUx60pjnc/edit#gid=159228718

Last Edit: Jan 8, 2021 10:51:22 GMT 1 by Garfield (RadioShack, commish)

Garfield (RadioShack, commish)
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Pools brainstorming Jan 7, 2021 18:33:18 GMT 1

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Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Jan 7, 2021 18:33:18 GMT 1

Now that I think of it: -100 in both 2019 and 2020 is very harsh for Rebounds.
I could only identify 5-7 dudes total who might have any life left in them.
Would perhaps -300 combined be more creative, to include those who were once decent but then disappeared completely?

Last Edit: Jan 7, 2021 19:01:23 GMT 1 by Garfield (RadioShack, commish)

glomser (Vacansoleil) God Posts: 1,168	Pools brainstorming Jan 8, 2021 0:28:06 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by glomser (Vacansoleil) on Jan 8, 2021 0:28:06 GMT 1 I guess that rebounders need to have lost a lot more points this season than others. And still that is arguable. And maybe it's good to give them a maximum in points like 200.

Garfield (RadioShack, commish) Administrator Posts: 1,909	Pools brainstorming Jan 8, 2021 10:51:03 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Jan 8, 2021 10:51:03 GMT 1 You know what? Even though only 362 riders scored over 100 CQ points last season as opposed to 680 the year before, I'm gonna keep it simple and fun: 100- in 2020 only, as weird as it was!

Garfield (RadioShack, commish)
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Pools brainstorming Jan 9, 2021 9:46:56 GMT 1

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Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Jan 9, 2021 9:46:56 GMT 1

OK, circling back again. (Btw such a shame that I have to talk to myself mostly, wouldn't mind more advice.)

If I did 100- in 2020 only, it removes A LOT of people from other pools just because the season was so short.

Example: Kruijswijk is and has always been the same good ol' GT podium contender. So he fell in Dauphine and got COVID in GdI. Does it mean that a decent 2021 would be a surprising comeback story? No. Thus, not what we want to achieve with the Rebound category.

Which brings me back to the previous proposal: -300 combined in 2019 and 2020.

glomser (Vacansoleil) God Posts: 1,168	Pools brainstorming Jan 9, 2021 12:29:29 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by glomser (Vacansoleil) on Jan 9, 2021 12:29:29 GMT 1 That makes it more reasonabble. A lot of riders like Kruijswijk, but also Van Garderen or Moscon won't be able to pick anymore even when I think the last two did have a bad season last year.
	Last Edit: Jan 9, 2021 12:29:45 GMT 1 by glomser (Vacansoleil)

Garfield (RadioShack, commish)
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Pools brainstorming Jan 9, 2021 13:32:00 GMT 1

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Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Jan 9, 2021 13:32:00 GMT 1

Jan 9, 2021 12:29:29 GMT 1 glomser (Vacansoleil) said:

That makes it more reasonabble. A lot of riders like Kruijswijk, but also Van Garderen or Moscon won't be able to pick anymore even when I think the last two did have a bad season last year.

I haven't shaken a hand or been to a restaurant since March. I think we've all had a bad season

Joelsim (BMC)
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Pools brainstorming Jan 9, 2021 16:58:03 GMT 1

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Post by Joelsim (BMC) on Jan 9, 2021 16:58:03 GMT 1

Can I just clarify 'rebound' please?

1) Is this ANY rider who's scored less than 300 combined over the last two seasons?
2) Given last year's low points totals there are oodles of youngsters who satisfy the criteria, is it worth placing an AGE>25 on this (Born 1996 or before perhaps)?

Last Edit: Jan 9, 2021 17:07:22 GMT 1 by Joelsim (BMC)

Garfield (RadioShack, commish)
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Pools brainstorming Jan 9, 2021 17:10:16 GMT 1 Joelsim (BMC) likes this

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Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Jan 9, 2021 17:10:16 GMT 1

Jan 9, 2021 16:58:03 GMT 1 Joelsim (BMC) said:

Can I just clarify 'rebound' please?

Obviously gotta be older than a Budding Star.
Just added explicit pool descriptions to the rules for future generations.

Joelsim (BMC) Global Moderator Posts: 1,550	Pools brainstorming Jan 9, 2021 17:10:57 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Joelsim (BMC) on Jan 9, 2021 17:10:57 GMT 1 Cool, makes sense.

Garfield (RadioShack, commish)
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Pools brainstorming Dec 11, 2021 15:43:15 GMT 1

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Post by Garfield (RadioShack, commish) on Dec 11, 2021 15:43:15 GMT 1

As usual, first we'll construct the pools, and then we'll conduct the bidding starting on January 1.

The CR brainstorm sheet as of now:

Newly relegated to geezers (1986) making space for those graduating from budding stars (1997) and other emerging stars:

Thomas - Mäder, Foss, Vingegaard
Mollema, D. Martin - Higuita, Storer, Sivakov, Bernal, O'Connor
Hermans, de Gendt, Costa - Honore, Powless, Eiking
Clarke - Dewulf
+Turgis

I've also removed Hirt, Hagen, de Plus, Knox, Roosen, Mühlberger, Keukeleire, EBH, Planckaert, Vuillermoz, Slagter, Conti, Cimolai, de Buyst, Calmejane, Gallopin, Quaade, Ludvigsson.

Getting to pool size to equal 22 across the board, here is the proposed reshuffling:

Konrad, Gorka - all-rounder
Dennis - TT

And as usual, trying desperately to name more puncheurs. And so, somewhat controversially: Cort, Godon, Rota, Covi, Paret-Peintre?

Thoughts?

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2021 15:43:42 GMT 1 by Garfield (RadioShack, commish)

qazaqstan (Katusha): So for example M. Van Dijke had 105 + 173 CQ points in the normal CQ ranking in the last two years, so he is eligible as surprise rider. But for the game itself, we will use your calendar, meaning that .1 races and national championships will not count ? Dec 1, 2024 23:43:59 GMT 1

qazaqstan (Katusha): Hi. It is correct that for the CR categories we will look at their normal CQ points, but for the standings, we will use fantasycycling calendar? Dec 1, 2024 23:42:17 GMT 1

arry1338 (Saxo): I'll check on my mobile at some point, may have to respond with a temporary account as I can't seem to log in on my phone Dec 1, 2024 13:35:11 GMT 1